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Felsökning av elektronik/dator, hjälp önskas!

 
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FreThor
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Registreringsdatum: 12 mars 2010
Inlägg: 404
Ort: Karlskoga

InläggPostat: 2016-07-28 08:49:28    Rubrik: Felsökning av elektronik/dator, hjälp önskas! Svara med citat

Ohoj!

Efter en lång tids bristande intresse så tog jag mig i kragen nyligen och lyfte ur elektroniklådan ur min 106:a, för att se om jag kan hitta nåt fel i den, men efter att ha lyft på locket så ser jag naturligtvis inget uppenbart.
Jag efterlyser härmed om nån har eller vet var man kan hitta dokumentation om elektronikenheten och styrdatorn? Helst förstås med felsökningsschema så jag kan börja felsöka på ett mer strukturerat sätt.
Kan man exempelvis spänningsmata datorn externt och se om den lever?

För informations skull är symptomen dessa (när den satt i bilen):
När jag slår på tändning visar instrumenten laddningsstatus, när jag vrider nyckeln ett hack till händer inget, den går inte över i driftläge.
När jag ansluter laddkabeln så startar inte laddning, men jag har 220V framme vid boxen. Jag ansluter dator med Lexia men får ingen kontakt med bilens dator.

All hjälp, liten som stor, tas extremt tacksamt emot!!!
_________________
_____________________________________________________________
Peugeot 106 Electric, på G.
Och en Amica elkonverterad mopedbil, också på G.
Till överst på sidan
Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
Pera L
Elektrisk


Registreringsdatum: 05 april 2010
Inlägg: 174

InläggPostat: 2016-08-08 22:00:25    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hej! I like to answer for questions by asking some things:
- Is there over 12V in the 12V battery?
- Does the car start to charge 12V battery when you put "ignition" on? Does it start to charge traction batteries and 12V battery with laddhandsken?
- Is there 100V or more when you have voltmeter connected for the traction batteries poles and connect the ignition on; remove the aluminium plate with two torx screw, center poles. Do not cause short circuit!
- Is there all 6 traction battery fuses/barettes connected? Oxidation?
- Is there any burned fuse in the engine room fuses or inside fuses?
- With Lexia, is it get 12V for the data transformer? Green light, does it glows?
- Is the car what yearmodel? -99 or newer? 2000 and younger there is drive contactor cut off if the drivers front door is open. It has done by door switch.

Hope you can get a good start with these!

Best regards
Pera (jävla finn)
_________________
Too much spannung caused curly hair.
Involved for too many electric cars so must
rise up medication.
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Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
FreThor
Forumstammis


Registreringsdatum: 12 mars 2010
Inlägg: 404
Ort: Karlskoga

InläggPostat: 2016-08-09 09:50:15    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hej Pera!
Jag svarar bland dina frågor nedan!

Hej! I like to answer for questions by asking some things:
- Is there over 12V in the 12V battery?
Yes, it is. Not a new battery but freschly charged.

- Does the car start to charge 12V battery when you put "ignition" on?
No, it does not, or I'm about 90% sure it doesn't, it was a while since I tried it...

Does it start to charge traction batteries and 12V battery with laddhandsken?
No it doesn't, this I'm sure.

- Is there 100V or more when you have voltmeter connected for the traction batteries poles and connect the ignition on; remove the aluminium plate with two torx screw, center poles. Do not cause short circuit!
Yes, there is, I've measured the voltage at the connectors under the cover, and the instument on the dash shows charge status when I turn on the ignition.

- Is there all 6 traction battery fuses/barettes connected?
Yes, I've measured the voltage under the bonnet. I did realise that I have switched position of fuse and the other type on the rear battery, but for this purpose it shouldn't matter, right?

Oxidation?
Probably, but there's still correct voltage...

- Is there any burned fuse in the engine room fuses or inside fuses?
Not that I've located, I hope that I have located, checked them all...

- With Lexia, is it get 12V for the data transformer? Green light, does it glows?
I don't get any response from the onboard computer. What green light, where?

- Is the car what yearmodel? -99 or newer? 2000 and younger there is drive contactor cut off if the drivers front door is open. It has done by door switch.
It's a 97, so the door contact should be there I guess. I'm quite sure I've tried all things with door closed as well as open.
It's the old style of OBD Contact for connecting the computer, but I removed it and soldered a new style connector instead since I only had the new style connector for my Lexia/PP. Hopefully I connected the right wires... But there was no Communication when I used a borrowed converter from a local Citroën garage.

Also, I have located a french workshop manual with step by step trouble shooting instructions, but since I don't speak french, it's a real pain to try to find a relevant section and then translate Word by Word and decipher the results. Are those by any chance availible in any other language? English, Swedish/danish/norwegian perhaps?

Hope you can get a good start with these!

Best regards
Pera (jävla finn)

/Fredrik
_________________
_____________________________________________________________
Peugeot 106 Electric, på G.
Och en Amica elkonverterad mopedbil, också på G.
Till överst på sidan
Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
Pera L
Elektrisk


Registreringsdatum: 05 april 2010
Inlägg: 174

InläggPostat: 2016-08-10 10:59:20    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Ok, more suggestions...
Connect the voltages, traction and 12V, out and check the followings:
- Looking from front, remove two right side thick wires (motor anchor current, 13mm socket) and two field wires (red and blue, under torxes). Keep out from chassis and measure field wires resistance between red and blue. Need to be 6,5 to 8,5ohms.
Measure from red or blue to chassis, need to be more than 200kohm.
Measure between two thick wires (red and green), need to be something like 0,5ohm or less. If higher turn the motor littlebit and measure again.
Measure between red or green to chassis, need to be 200kohm or more.
- Remove the connector back of the reduction box (rpm sensor) and check out the corrosion.
- Remove temp sensor connector front of the radiator (Webasto side) and measure sensor resistance. Need to be something like 2,5-5kohm if ambient temperature is about 17-22C.
- Take out ECU and check out particulary two thicker gray wires so that they are ok. Grey ones feed the main contactor coil. Measure resistance between the gray wires, need to be something like 2 to 3 ohms.
- Smell ECU hole; is there smell of the burned electronics?

About Lexia dongle, original takes current both, OBD connector (12V) and USB port. Reproductionstake current only USB. I'm not sure is there green led at reproduction dongle, must check, I have both.
From the ODB connector in the car, there must come 12V plus and minus. And of course the data lines.

Strange if you can mix the fuses (heavier) and barettes (lighter) as normally fuses go every sockets but barettes only barette sockets.

We all can feel the tension at the air when waiting results from the measurings....

Best regards
Pera L
_________________
Too much spannung caused curly hair.
Involved for too many electric cars so must
rise up medication.
Till överst på sidan
Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
FreThor
Forumstammis


Registreringsdatum: 12 mars 2010
Inlägg: 404
Ort: Karlskoga

InläggPostat: 2016-08-11 17:55:25    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Great, here are the first results:

Ok, more suggestions...
Connect the voltages, traction and 12V, out and check the followings:
- Looking from front, remove two right side thick wires (motor anchor current, 13mm socket) and two field wires (red and blue, under torxes). Keep out from chassis and measure field wires resistance between red and blue. Need to be 6,5 to 8,5ohms.
6,1 Ohm

Measure from red or blue to chassis, need to be more than 200kohm.
No measurable connection at all.

Measure between two thick wires (red and green), need to be something like 0,5ohm or less. If higher turn the motor littlebit and measure again.
0,4 Ohm (which may be 0,1 since it read 0,3 when test wires shorted)

Measure between red or green to chassis, need to be 200kohm or more.
No measurable connection at all.

- Remove the connector back of the reduction box (rpm sensor) and check out the corrosion.
Not done yet, I only had 5 minutes to spare...

- Remove temp sensor connector front of the radiator (Webasto side) and measure sensor resistance. Need to be something like 2,5-5kohm if ambient temperature is about 17-22C.
3,1 kOhm

- Take out ECU and check out particulary two thicker gray wires so that they are ok. Grey ones feed the main contactor coil. Measure resistance between the gray wires, need to be something like 2 to 3 ohms.
2,3 Ohm

- Smell ECU hole; is there smell of the burned electronics?
Not that I can remember from when I opened it earlier, noting visible either.

About Lexia dongle, original takes current both, OBD connector (12V) and USB port. Reproductionstake current only USB. I'm not sure is there green led at reproduction dongle, must check, I have both.
From the ODB connector in the car, there must come 12V plus and minus. And of course the data lines.
I'll check how I connected it, but as I remember there was only three wires connected to the new OBDII connector I got, +12V, ground and a data line.

Strange if you can mix the fuses (heavier) and barettes (lighter) as normally fuses go every sockets but barettes only barette sockets.
Not so strange, I mixed up the fuse and barette connector when I assembled the battery box and put them on opposite/wrong sides, so naturally the fuse and barette had go where the connectors are... My mistake.

We all can feel the tension at the air when waiting results from the measurings....
Yes, I was curious too, but so far nothing seems out of the ordinary.
Still curious about that green light...


Best regards
Pera L

Kiitos,
Fredrik

_________________
_____________________________________________________________
Peugeot 106 Electric, på G.
Och en Amica elkonverterad mopedbil, också på G.
Till överst på sidan
Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
Pera L
Elektrisk


Registreringsdatum: 05 april 2010
Inlägg: 174

InläggPostat: 2016-08-11 21:54:43    Rubrik: Svara med citat

Hej igen!
So, elmotor seems to be ok (field winding resistance is littlebit low but I have seen similar below +20C ambient) and tempgivare also. Main contactor coil is ok and there is no leaks to chassis. RPM sensor is also crucial so maybe it's good idea to check it.

Theoretically it is possible that there is a stop system in the drivers door and the wires are loosen from it at the inside. It's quite nasty to check out. I trying to find suitable connection so that you can override them.

Maybe you can also check out the "starting black box" just side of the elbox. Take out the connectors and check that there is no oxidation. Also, take out the cover and check out the fuse inside of it. T'was quite small value, 3 to 5 amps???

All these actions is good to do before trying change the ECU or rip off the elbox witch is more specialised job and, of course, nastier. Hope you have possibility to loan elbox and/or ECU from someone?

After your P106E works (note the positive attitude) it is excellent idea to put 2pcs 15A fuse to the field wires. It's not prevent the possible motor breakdown but helps to fix elbox a lot.

Hälsningar
Pera L
_________________
Too much spannung caused curly hair.
Involved for too many electric cars so must
rise up medication.
Till överst på sidan
Användarens profil Skicka personligt meddelande
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